@ M- I totally agree with Anon- people had to reveal themselves. others to the extent of insulting by callin names like Kihii…..
that was distasteful truly annoying but i guess they are allowed to have their opinion.

Tribalism whether positive or negative is Tribalism and its a vice that no human should condone or even entertain because we are all equal before our creator and man.

we should take pride in our cultures but assuming that a tribe is superior to another for whatever reasons anyone can come up with is just plain stupidity -i wouldn’t even call it ignorance thats beyond ignorance.

Its sad how people reason on this day and age……..

‘Tribelessness’ = power …. remember the principles behind the Tower of Babel.
Many kenyans, esp products of mixed marriages, don’t speak their parents’ tribal languages and are none the worse for it.

@Irena – with Sarah on ‘how come you don’t blog any more’?

Tribalism in Diaspora – A different perspective
By A Kenyan in Diaspora

As an individual who has lived abroad for more than a decade, I have noted that new “arrivals” who back at home defined themselves as being of a certain tribe do not choose to re-define themselves as members of a new and larger group because at a certain point, tribalism loses its importance and other unifying factors such as social class gain significance. It would appear that neither the term, the concept of tribalism nor loyalty to a tribe goes away just because you are living in an alien land. Just like in Kenya, in Diaspora tribal group identification plays an important role in public life and it is not uncommon for terms and attitudes to be expressed by one tribe about another tribe, even those who are not strangers and have seen each other many times in the local pub, local church, local supermarket or work together. Due to the strength of tribal stereotypes they maintain social distance and will continue to do so unless these barriers that separate them can be broken down and some common ground for interaction achieved. Those in small towns have used religion as a mechanism of social interaction that has served to reduce ethnic variations and it has proved a useful tool in giving some degree of homogeneity to a diversified population. It is interesting to note that women are often the ones making the most effort find common ground.

In my humble opinion, who we are is partly a product of our culture, how others perceive us and indeed how we perceive ourselves so anyone could be forgiven for believing that the problems of inter-tribal conflict are simply intractable and that the idea of peace and harmony between different communities is just a naïve pipe dream but the bottom line is it is the immutable fact of individuality which above all else determines who are really are on an individual basis and I for one believe Kenya would be much better off if it re-discovered this philosophy.

Ps – Have you read this?

Politicians yet to realise impact of internet, warns Google chief
Source: FT.com

Politicians have yet to wake up to the impact of the -internet, which will expose them to online “truth predictor” tests and affect the outcome of general elections, the head of Google said on Tuesday. In an interview with the Financial Times, Eric Schmidt, the chairman and chief executive of the most popular internet search engine, said his speech to the Conservative conference was part of a global mission to educate political leaders. “Many of the politicians don’t actually understand the phenomenon of the internet very well. It’s partly because of their age . . . often what they learn about the internet they learn from their staffs and their children,” Mr Schmidt said. The current “TV generation” of political leaders had learnt to “switch on” and perform in front of the cameras and most were now aware of the internet’s importance, he said. But he argued they had yet to grasp the technology’s implications, not least in terms of the power it hands to voters, posing the question: “If television created this generation of politicians, what will the internet do to the next generation of politicians?”

M wacha so you allow mentalacrobatics to call me mad…… but i cant have my 2cents. lol its ok it alright! you protect your friend

Joe – I ended up at the site (before M’s editing got to work)…

Kwanza – I agree with M, it was a “personal” attack… there were some unneeded harsh words!
Second – The pic in question was so lame, I have livelier pop-ups even when I am being good!
Third – I can’t figure WHY I even bother to respond to you… The “kihii” comment…

BUT I (& M) wanna know… did you peek under M’s drawers/undies?
Did you like what you saw?

Hee… hee…

I have left the building… goodnite everybody…

M: This is not a good example, as you can very wel tell that Shiroh does not believe Otieno is his brother.

This is now what i call brain retrogression. Now where did i say I dont believe Otieno is my brother. C’MON give me some slack.

OK i thought long and hard about what i said and let me say I apologies to M for my insult . it was wrong of me to say that.A real man kikuyu and kenyan is not afraid to admit when he is wrong . so to M- I AM SORRY.

To Everyone else who read what i said to M . I APOLOGIZE TO YOU .you shouldnt have to be subjected to reading such foolishness .

Oh sweet Jaysus! Took me long enough to get through 114 comments!!!

Summing up what we have so far, it looks like we have a couple of sub-arguments being discussed under 1 proxy argument and it keeps getting re-framed with each subsequent commenter.

1) “Should you be proud of your tribe?” has been conclusively answered. Short answer, “Yes”. Long answer “hell yes!”.

2)Is there a “better” tribe (by dint of foreskin having or lack thereof, business acumen having or lacking, fish eating, senator producing, swift running, flower planting in round abouts, lower teeth plucking blah blah effing blah?) . Short answer, No. Long answer, “Hellous nous” (TKS, 2005).

There are also a couple of sub-arguments e.g. so “you guys” think you could have done a better job which is closely related to the “please see Kikuyu resume attached” which are sub-plots to question 2 above (see short answer to the question).

Lastly, it is soooo offensive to me as a Kikuyu that this is being debated in my name. I know I’ve been away from home for a while, but at the very least, I should have gotten a ka-e-mail ama a ka-memo on what my j.d. and responsibilities as a “tribe member” entailed.

BCC people- blind courtesy copy!!!

I’ve been following this ‘little’ debate with not a little amusement. This ends here, for I have run out of popcorn.
Tribalism is a social construct; a remnant/carryover/by-product of colonialism.
Divide and rule if you will, and one needs look no further than at the comments on this blog to conclude that it’s been (and surprisingly, still is) a pretty effective divisive tool.
Whenever you’re tempted, remember this, Every time — YOU loose, and every time, THEY win.
Indeed, the only time you should look down on your ‘brother’ is when you’re helping him up.

@Mutumia – I have to respectfully disagree with point 1 – should you be proud of your tribe? What about those with no real affiliation to any tribe? As a product of a mixed marriage, consisting of one parent who was also from a mixed marriage, and part of a mixed marriage myself, I have no sense of my Kikuyuness or Kalenjinness or Masainess or Luhyaness, but I do have a strong sense of being Kenyan.
I think it’s time Kenyans looked beyond the narrow confines of tribes and began to identify themselves as Kenyans first and foremost, and probably – if need be – just ditch this whole tribe phenomenon altogether: what purpose does it serve?

A rose by any other name.

I am sorry to have to say this but the idea of ‘positive tribalism’ in Kenyan is one that most would love to hate. Look beyond the phrase and into the interpretation. “I am a Kikuyu and ABSOLUTELY love all-things-Kikuyu e.g Food, Culture,Language etc (but that does not mean i hate on other tribes).”
You can not shake off your tribal affiliations, you were born a luo, kamba, kikuyu,..whatever accepting that and being proud of it ought to be the first step.
There are mad men in your village but that does not make you mad. The few lunatics in the neighboring villages dont make everyone in the neigbouring community mad. If I prosper on your expense, it hurts whether or not I belong to your tribe, so this should not be an issue in the debate. Looking at this from a tribal perspective is wrong it should be looked at from a national perspective after all abusing another’s rights is against the Kenyan law not an issue of tribal norms. It’s a blatant lie to say that all Kyuks are better of since Kibaki got power and the same can be said of the Kalenjins in moi’s days.

It is also important to remember that the fact that a delusional Kalenjin lunatic threw a rock and broke your window doesn’t mean that all Kalenjins encouraged him to do this or share similar views. Being proud of your tribal affiliations does not imply hatred for other tribes. Diversity is something to be celebrated.
If the you dislike the phrase, simply ask yourself, whats wrong with being a [whatever tribe you belong] and then remember there is nothing wrong with not being [whatever tribe you belong].

If you move this debate into a political level, you lower the overall reasoning. I find it hard to point out a village without it’s mad men, but I find it much more difficult to find a village without it’s men of honor and integrity. Looking at the govt past and present, you will always find individuals who worked hard and did their job, you will also find layabouts who spent most of their time politicking and looting, I dont expect a difference in the immediate future. Tribalism is not a causation to corruption !! Dont be fooled, being a leader from [whatever tribe you like] does not mean he/she will work with integrity, shun corruption and preach peace and unity and neither does it mean the opposite.

One thing I have realised with marginalisation (ethnic, race, religious etc..) is that if you look for it you will always find it, even where it doesn’t exist. Sometimes ignoring it and moving on is the best way out.

I’m a Kikuyu because I can speak the language and my name suggests so. But I should never judge a man by virtue of his tribe, color, race, class, nationality or religious affiliations. This have never defined a man and never will.

Having said that, the problem may not go away so soon as we seem to keep segregating ourselves tribally (kikuyu/kalenjin/whatever radio, politicians statements, on the job tribalism, discussions in pubs … etc). I think we need a uniting figure like Desmond Tutu or Nyerere. One who through his ideals and track record can command respect from all 42 tribes and educate people so that they see how stupid our politicians make us look.

I am the same guy who posted there Joe.

The Government has noted with great concern that some leaders have been making reckless statements that border on incitement. In the last few days, for example, a few leaders have talked about ethnic clashes in a manner meant to incite people against the Government and against each other.

The Government issues a strong warning that it will question, arrest, and prosecute such leaders regardless of their political affiliation or status in society.

The Kenya Government has been at the forefront, quelling insecurity arising from misunderstandings between different communities. The Government has been doing this through swift and firm action. People who are used to inciting others should realise that the days of doing that and getting away with it are gone. Leaders are advised to think critically and weigh their words before commenting on security issues.

The Government urges wananchi to ignore such leaders and such incitement, and to support the government when it takes strong action against such irresponsible leaders.

Dr. Alfred Mutua
Public Communications Secretary/Government Spokesperson
October 9, 2006

@MamaMia- what you’re saying makes sense. Actually, a whole lot of sense. I agree with you that for many Kenyans, the notion of ‘tribe’ is not as clear cut as saying “I’m a Giriama” or “I’m a Rendille” as claiming one tribe, would negate the other e.g.what Tiger Woods said when being asked why he reckoned he wasn’t “black”- he (paraphrased) said that by claiming to only black, he negated his mother’s existence. And what I’m saying is that whatever it is that you claim- multi-tribal, or Kenyan, we *do* need to celebrate our- I guess, “heritage” is the term. It would be sad, and a tragedy if the cultural diversity that Kenya has in adudance, was lost- you know, language, wedding ceremonies, proverbs, riddles and bed time stories. All these things enrichen our collective lives. A Luhya wedding dance, a Swahili henna tatoo is something to be celebrated. The trouble comes about when we try and combine ‘pride’ with chauvinism- and the two are very different animals.

how about 5. i was just informing readers of what the official government position is and did not intentionaly want to mislead anyone . all i wanted was to [provide the appropriate contacts for DR Mutua. sorry for any misleading that may have occured .

regards ni mimi wenyu

joe

Hi M,
I have been following this too and got so exasperated with some of the stuff some said that I decided not to comment cos I would just be saying almost all people are saying if not more. Suffice it to say, if you are IN KENYA at the moment and you are saying that tribalism et al does not exist – that is – in my opinion – BULLSHIT. You have watched the news and read papers and listened to people whom you thought were not really tribalistic? If the answer to any of that or all of the above is ‘YES’ then let us finish this debate and think of how we can set higher standards for ourselves and the generations to come – cos it seems the fossils that abound, and some of the older generation, are too far gone.
G – and this time it sure doesnt stand for Guessaurus… M?
@Joe – Hi – I dont want to pick a dead fight but thanks for apologising to M – needless to say that was a personal insult which went far beyond just M.

M,
Sorry I’m late to the party. I have a slightly different take on the subject. I think it is fair to say that since independence 40 years ago, the tribe has proven to be the basic political unit Kenya. On almost all major issues, the people have voted tribe first. That is not a comment on the merits or demerits of the concept, just an acknowledgement of the reality. That being so, it seems to me that we should take account of it in developing our political structures. Huffing and puffing about the dangers of ukabila doesn’t seem to have gotten us anywhere. After 4 decades of banging our collective heads against that particular wall, it’s time for a rethink.

And a little over one year later, just how silly the idea of positive tribalism is came out in full force. Amazing how you were on point so long before the violence.