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	<title>Comments on: Madness Is &#8230;</title>
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	<description>Unique - just like everyone else. Manufactured and bottled in Kenya</description>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-115594</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-115594</guid>
		<description>Dear Kenyans, 
Mwai Kibaki is just a middle man  WORKING  for big money cooperations overseas.He could careless  about Kikuyus except for those he appoints to head military, police, ministries etc. He does that ,not because he likes his Kikuyu people rather because he can depend on  tribal loyalty to consolidate power.Otherwise, if he cared for Kikuyus as much as they care about him, he would be trying to negotiate with others to restore all the 250,000 plus displaced Kikuyus country wide. Biggest losers thus far is Kikuyus.

Kenyans need to  rise up against this type of theft  and confront the   Karao, and arme and gsu elements that keep Kibaki in power.Kikuyus are not the enemies of Kenya.Kikuyus, no matter how arrogant Kibaki&#039;s presidency make them feel, are Africans just as the rest of us. We and Kikuyu people are one.The  reaction of Kenyans  against Kikuyus   is foolish and senseless .

For one, Kibaki is just an employee of foreign investors. and his ministers, karua , michuki, etc are just scavengers eating foreign investors left overs.

It is stupid for us to fight each other  because the middleman is not from our particular tribe. Kibaki won because he presented the least threat to thieves who have been raping  Kenya since existence .The thieves, both local and abroad,  could not afford a change of leadership,Odinga had just taken the government and Safaricom, the countries cellphone service provider, to court over their intention to give back the 20% shares that Kenya owned.Clearly Raila was not good for business.He also had promised to go after all of Kenyans stolen money.A lot of foreign investors were worried about him. Kenya needs to remain as it is or worse for the big money makers to continue making their money.Kibaki proved reliable.
Kibaki has been &quot;trained&#039; at the job since 1963. He was a minister  in the government of our first thief , Jomo Kenyatta. He was the vice thief of our second thief, Daniel arap Moi and now he finally graduated to be the chief thief himself.

I have been to Othaya recently, the place is absolute poverty.Chokoras are everywhere in Nyeri. The most he can do for Kikuyus is perharps build better roads in their area, just like the thief Moi did in Eldoret.Besides that , he has nothing to offer Kikuyus or Kenyans. Any Kikuyu defending Kibaki is only doing so for bragging rights. Just to be able to say that the president is a Kikuyu. This is not a reason to fight against a whole country for.Kikuyus struggle  just as hard in the so called Kibaki&#039;s &quot;5% economic growth&quot;.
This guy is not worth our blood. or our relationship with each other. The guy is not worth Kenya.
Lets not be fooled by decisions of a few into hating each other.Behind Kibaki their is the power of cooperate world and lobbyist</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Kenyans,<br />
Mwai Kibaki is just a middle man  WORKING  for big money cooperations overseas.He could careless  about Kikuyus except for those he appoints to head military, police, ministries etc. He does that ,not because he likes his Kikuyu people rather because he can depend on  tribal loyalty to consolidate power.Otherwise, if he cared for Kikuyus as much as they care about him, he would be trying to negotiate with others to restore all the 250,000 plus displaced Kikuyus country wide. Biggest losers thus far is Kikuyus.</p>
<p>Kenyans need to  rise up against this type of theft  and confront the   Karao, and arme and gsu elements that keep Kibaki in power.Kikuyus are not the enemies of Kenya.Kikuyus, no matter how arrogant Kibaki&#8217;s presidency make them feel, are Africans just as the rest of us. We and Kikuyu people are one.The  reaction of Kenyans  against Kikuyus   is foolish and senseless .</p>
<p>For one, Kibaki is just an employee of foreign investors. and his ministers, karua , michuki, etc are just scavengers eating foreign investors left overs.</p>
<p>It is stupid for us to fight each other  because the middleman is not from our particular tribe. Kibaki won because he presented the least threat to thieves who have been raping  Kenya since existence .The thieves, both local and abroad,  could not afford a change of leadership,Odinga had just taken the government and Safaricom, the countries cellphone service provider, to court over their intention to give back the 20% shares that Kenya owned.Clearly Raila was not good for business.He also had promised to go after all of Kenyans stolen money.A lot of foreign investors were worried about him. Kenya needs to remain as it is or worse for the big money makers to continue making their money.Kibaki proved reliable.<br />
Kibaki has been &#8220;trained&#8217; at the job since 1963. He was a minister  in the government of our first thief , Jomo Kenyatta. He was the vice thief of our second thief, Daniel arap Moi and now he finally graduated to be the chief thief himself.</p>
<p>I have been to Othaya recently, the place is absolute poverty.Chokoras are everywhere in Nyeri. The most he can do for Kikuyus is perharps build better roads in their area, just like the thief Moi did in Eldoret.Besides that , he has nothing to offer Kikuyus or Kenyans. Any Kikuyu defending Kibaki is only doing so for bragging rights. Just to be able to say that the president is a Kikuyu. This is not a reason to fight against a whole country for.Kikuyus struggle  just as hard in the so called Kibaki&#8217;s &#8220;5% economic growth&#8221;.<br />
This guy is not worth our blood. or our relationship with each other. The guy is not worth Kenya.<br />
Lets not be fooled by decisions of a few into hating each other.Behind Kibaki their is the power of cooperate world and lobbyist</p>
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		<title>By: janam</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114931</link>
		<dc:creator>janam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114931</guid>
		<description>Its done,so Kenya mourn!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its done,so Kenya mourn!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114897</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114897</guid>
		<description>I am just passed, I feel betrayed by Kibaki, if this is left to stand it is the end for Democracy in the region, next he will change the constitution to be able to run for a third term ...wait and see!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just passed, I feel betrayed by Kibaki, if this is left to stand it is the end for Democracy in the region, next he will change the constitution to be able to run for a third term &#8230;wait and see!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114777</guid>
		<description>Esther,

Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Esther,</p>
<p>Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Esther</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114771</link>
		<dc:creator>Esther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114771</guid>
		<description>My take on the ethnicity angle, especially seeing as i am from a minority community, is that we need to embrace the diversity that is kenya. I do not advocate for Majimboism but I suppose some sort of devolution of power and economic growth is necesary. 

I would love to see a kenya where each city is able to sustain the people the people who are born and bred around it so that all the young people do not have to troop to Nai to look for nonexistent jobs and live in the slums. Nyanza has lots of sugar plantations but our sugar industry is one of the most bedivilled in the agricultural sector. What happened to the rice paddies in Ahero? Why are the people who live around river Nyando flooded out of their homes year in year out? Has any of you driven from Kisumu to Nakuru? Its the most atrocious track in the country yet its one of two feeder routes into the great lakes region (Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, eastern DRC) and not just a road that passes through &#039;opposition zones&#039;. Why does Tanzania&#039;s fishing industry and exports to the EU surpass ours yet they get their stock from the same Lake Vic as we do? Why are there no &#039;beach&#039; hotels r tourism activites around Lake Vic? Having lived in Uganda for 6 years, I can tell you that there&#039;s a lot that can be done in this regard.

When the Kalenjin runners win all the marathons across the world, we all hold our heads up high as Kenyans when our flag is raised and the anthem sang. In Dec it was reported in the media that brea prices have risen to 35 bob per loaf becasue the bakeries are now importing wheat... what happened to all those sheat farms in Kitale and other parts of the Rift Valley? What happened to all the cottonfarms and ginneries in the RiftValley that supplied Rivatex with some of the best cotton in Africa, second only to Egyptian cotton? 

Arguably, in most busineses across the country and indeed in corporate Kenya, the central kenya face is very prominent. But we forget that the minority Asian community has also played a crucial role in our industrial and commercial growth. Companies like Panpaper based in Webuye are unfortunately now scaling down operations. 

Nobody ever remembers to talk about all the Nyanza people represented in academic Kenya: in our research institutions (KEMRI, KEFRI, KETRI, ICIPE, ILRI, ETC). All those who are in the univerisities and schools training the young minds to go out and build a better Kenya. All those who teach in universities across Southern Africa becasue they could never get a hearing at home as they were considered to be from the &#039;opposition&#039; zone of the country. 

With the revival of KMC, goat hreders in some of the semi arid areas of the country now have an outlet for their animals and a means to earn an honest living. I read somewhere some time ago that while we have not yet hit black gold in kenya, we do have economically viable amounts of bitumen in the mandera region. As bitumen is one of the key components of raod construction, I imagine that we should be able to bring down the cost considerably and make it easier to have good roads across the countyr. Theres also talk of economically viable amounts of coal in some of the drier Kamba territories that could be use, for example, for electricity generation. 

What happened to all the sisal  and orange plantations around Voi? 

My question is: WHY CANT WE LEARN TO EMBRACE THE DIVERSITY OF OUR NATION BOTH IN TERMS OF NATURAL AND HUMAN RESOURCES?  Variety is the spice of life. We cannot all be doctors, lawyers, teachers, economists, engineers, etc. but irrespective of our god given talents, we are all a link in the chain. So if the kalenjin are good warriors, lets use that skill for the betterment of kenya in general rather than some ulterior objectives. Also, no man can live as an island. We need to harness our individual strengths so as to minimise our individual weaknesses. 

Finally, the well educated kenyans who write in blogs like this one shy away from taking an active part in the day to day affairs of the country. We don&#039;t all have to get ino politics but maybe we need more of the commentaries i read here appearing in our daily papers, in think tanks across kenya. The saying that the pen is mightier than the sword still holds true. I live in the hope that springs eternal that sooner rather than later we as kenyans will learn to live and love one another and use our individual strenghts for the betterment of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take on the ethnicity angle, especially seeing as i am from a minority community, is that we need to embrace the diversity that is kenya. I do not advocate for Majimboism but I suppose some sort of devolution of power and economic growth is necesary. </p>
<p>I would love to see a kenya where each city is able to sustain the people the people who are born and bred around it so that all the young people do not have to troop to Nai to look for nonexistent jobs and live in the slums. Nyanza has lots of sugar plantations but our sugar industry is one of the most bedivilled in the agricultural sector. What happened to the rice paddies in Ahero? Why are the people who live around river Nyando flooded out of their homes year in year out? Has any of you driven from Kisumu to Nakuru? Its the most atrocious track in the country yet its one of two feeder routes into the great lakes region (Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, eastern DRC) and not just a road that passes through &#8216;opposition zones&#8217;. Why does Tanzania&#8217;s fishing industry and exports to the EU surpass ours yet they get their stock from the same Lake Vic as we do? Why are there no &#8216;beach&#8217; hotels r tourism activites around Lake Vic? Having lived in Uganda for 6 years, I can tell you that there&#8217;s a lot that can be done in this regard.</p>
<p>When the Kalenjin runners win all the marathons across the world, we all hold our heads up high as Kenyans when our flag is raised and the anthem sang. In Dec it was reported in the media that brea prices have risen to 35 bob per loaf becasue the bakeries are now importing wheat&#8230; what happened to all those sheat farms in Kitale and other parts of the Rift Valley? What happened to all the cottonfarms and ginneries in the RiftValley that supplied Rivatex with some of the best cotton in Africa, second only to Egyptian cotton? </p>
<p>Arguably, in most busineses across the country and indeed in corporate Kenya, the central kenya face is very prominent. But we forget that the minority Asian community has also played a crucial role in our industrial and commercial growth. Companies like Panpaper based in Webuye are unfortunately now scaling down operations. </p>
<p>Nobody ever remembers to talk about all the Nyanza people represented in academic Kenya: in our research institutions (KEMRI, KEFRI, KETRI, ICIPE, ILRI, ETC). All those who are in the univerisities and schools training the young minds to go out and build a better Kenya. All those who teach in universities across Southern Africa becasue they could never get a hearing at home as they were considered to be from the &#8216;opposition&#8217; zone of the country. </p>
<p>With the revival of KMC, goat hreders in some of the semi arid areas of the country now have an outlet for their animals and a means to earn an honest living. I read somewhere some time ago that while we have not yet hit black gold in kenya, we do have economically viable amounts of bitumen in the mandera region. As bitumen is one of the key components of raod construction, I imagine that we should be able to bring down the cost considerably and make it easier to have good roads across the countyr. Theres also talk of economically viable amounts of coal in some of the drier Kamba territories that could be use, for example, for electricity generation. </p>
<p>What happened to all the sisal  and orange plantations around Voi? </p>
<p>My question is: WHY CANT WE LEARN TO EMBRACE THE DIVERSITY OF OUR NATION BOTH IN TERMS OF NATURAL AND HUMAN RESOURCES?  Variety is the spice of life. We cannot all be doctors, lawyers, teachers, economists, engineers, etc. but irrespective of our god given talents, we are all a link in the chain. So if the kalenjin are good warriors, lets use that skill for the betterment of kenya in general rather than some ulterior objectives. Also, no man can live as an island. We need to harness our individual strengths so as to minimise our individual weaknesses. </p>
<p>Finally, the well educated kenyans who write in blogs like this one shy away from taking an active part in the day to day affairs of the country. We don&#8217;t all have to get ino politics but maybe we need more of the commentaries i read here appearing in our daily papers, in think tanks across kenya. The saying that the pen is mightier than the sword still holds true. I live in the hope that springs eternal that sooner rather than later we as kenyans will learn to live and love one another and use our individual strenghts for the betterment of all.</p>
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		<title>By: Esther</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114756</link>
		<dc:creator>Esther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114756</guid>
		<description>One of the most profound truths about human rights - the right to life, assembly, speech, movement, etc, each right carries with it an obligation. You are free to excercise any of your rights but only in so far as in doing so you do not infringe on any of mine. If, for example, in the process of excercising your right to life you violate my right to movement, then houston, we have a problem! There is so much analysis in all international meida about the unravelling of kenya but one common thread i find in most of these analyses is Economics and Institutional Reforms: allowing the 3 arms of government to operate independently and reduce the power amassed in the presidency in kenya. I particularly find the argument put across by Charles Onyango-Obbo as very interesting. I recomeend that you read it - specially (Arap Kibenei. As I am not particularly astute at things like attacheing links, you can read it on www.monitor.co.ug (opinions section - title of article is &#039;Every plot of African land has the devil in it&#039;. 

http://www.monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/Charles_Onyango_Obbo/Every_plot_of_African_land_has_the_devil_in_it.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most profound truths about human rights &#8211; the right to life, assembly, speech, movement, etc, each right carries with it an obligation. You are free to excercise any of your rights but only in so far as in doing so you do not infringe on any of mine. If, for example, in the process of excercising your right to life you violate my right to movement, then houston, we have a problem! There is so much analysis in all international meida about the unravelling of kenya but one common thread i find in most of these analyses is Economics and Institutional Reforms: allowing the 3 arms of government to operate independently and reduce the power amassed in the presidency in kenya. I particularly find the argument put across by Charles Onyango-Obbo as very interesting. I recomeend that you read it &#8211; specially (Arap Kibenei. As I am not particularly astute at things like attacheing links, you can read it on <a href="http://www.monitor.co.ug" rel="nofollow">http://www.monitor.co.ug</a> (opinions section &#8211; title of article is &#8216;Every plot of African land has the devil in it&#8217;. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/Charles_Onyango_Obbo/Every_plot_of_African_land_has_the_devil_in_it.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/Charles_Onyango_Obbo/Every_plot_of_African_land_has_the_devil_in_it.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jose</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114683</guid>
		<description>Arap Sei,

You have shown us that you know how Israel works. You have shown us that you have some facts. You have read all the books there are to read on the Mossad. Good on you. You are bright and number 1. in fact we give you a gold star for your knowledge!

But keep your divisive, inciting and spiteful drivel to yourself. Kill Ruto indeed! It&#039;s this kind of talk and thought that has us in this pit that we are in, and instead of stoking tribal flames hiding behind some fake lame-ass Kalenjin alias, we should be using every forum to scream, plead and demand for peace and reconciliation in our motherland.

I can tell you are clearly outside the country, ensconced in some Western capital as you type your hate mail, and are not directly affected by the s**t we are going thru in the country. 

I guess you have a green card or whatever it is called, so you have options. For the rest of us, Kenya is the only home we have, and we will be damned if idiots like yourself poison our home.

Same for Arap Kibinei. Nobody cares whether you and your ilk are real warriors or not. It is the so called real warriors that have the country on fire now, and a fat load of good it is doing us.

I guess there is freedom of speech as a fundamental right, but that does not give anyone the right to stoke ethnic flames or to call for the killing of a leader in the country. If only you idiots would look at what happened in Rwanda between 91 and 94, you would desist from your chest-thumping.

Kenya is on fire, and what our country needs is real men and real women to stand up and heal the wounds. Kenya does not need short-sighted ethno-centric perspectives. Keep those to yourselves!

Long live our multi-ethnic, multi-racial KENYA!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arap Sei,</p>
<p>You have shown us that you know how Israel works. You have shown us that you have some facts. You have read all the books there are to read on the Mossad. Good on you. You are bright and number 1. in fact we give you a gold star for your knowledge!</p>
<p>But keep your divisive, inciting and spiteful drivel to yourself. Kill Ruto indeed! It&#8217;s this kind of talk and thought that has us in this pit that we are in, and instead of stoking tribal flames hiding behind some fake lame-ass Kalenjin alias, we should be using every forum to scream, plead and demand for peace and reconciliation in our motherland.</p>
<p>I can tell you are clearly outside the country, ensconced in some Western capital as you type your hate mail, and are not directly affected by the s**t we are going thru in the country. </p>
<p>I guess you have a green card or whatever it is called, so you have options. For the rest of us, Kenya is the only home we have, and we will be damned if idiots like yourself poison our home.</p>
<p>Same for Arap Kibinei. Nobody cares whether you and your ilk are real warriors or not. It is the so called real warriors that have the country on fire now, and a fat load of good it is doing us.</p>
<p>I guess there is freedom of speech as a fundamental right, but that does not give anyone the right to stoke ethnic flames or to call for the killing of a leader in the country. If only you idiots would look at what happened in Rwanda between 91 and 94, you would desist from your chest-thumping.</p>
<p>Kenya is on fire, and what our country needs is real men and real women to stand up and heal the wounds. Kenya does not need short-sighted ethno-centric perspectives. Keep those to yourselves!</p>
<p>Long live our multi-ethnic, multi-racial KENYA!</p>
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		<title>By: Arap Kibenei</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114628</link>
		<dc:creator>Arap Kibenei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114628</guid>
		<description>&lt;div class=&quot;commentary&quot;&gt;
Deleted due to crass absurdity
&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="commentary">
Deleted due to crass absurdity
</div>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114619</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114619</guid>
		<description>Dear arap sei.
Kibaki is a thief, therefore he is not the right guy to bring an end to the violencve in rift valley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear arap sei.<br />
Kibaki is a thief, therefore he is not the right guy to bring an end to the violencve in rift valley.</p>
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		<title>By: Ishara</title>
		<link>http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/comment-page-2/#comment-114603</link>
		<dc:creator>Ishara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thinkersroom.com/blog/2008/01/madness-is/#comment-114603</guid>
		<description>@ arap sei,

A state sponsored assasination is no hardship to order, wananchi got a glimpse into this particular abyss under Moi....nor as Kenyans know are all traces and evidence of it&#039;s use difficult to eliminate, one by one by one until there is no one left to testify about the chain of events that unfolded.

However, as much as it may gall individuals like you, there aren&#039;t any secrets worth keeping in this nation called Kenya that wananchi do not or will not know all about right about the time they&#039;re classified as secret (yes, it is that bad!).

Added to which elimination of an individual in a leadership position by way of assasination is a two way street as many nations have learnt to their cost....any one can be gotten to, so I wouldn&#039;t be in any rush to consider your idea a solution to all the individuals considered to be a &#039;problem&#039;.

Your idea of the &#039;problem&#039; individual is yours. I have mine, others have theirs.....pursuing this argument to it&#039;s proper conclusion, where does that leave us? 

Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ arap sei,</p>
<p>A state sponsored assasination is no hardship to order, wananchi got a glimpse into this particular abyss under Moi&#8230;.nor as Kenyans know are all traces and evidence of it&#8217;s use difficult to eliminate, one by one by one until there is no one left to testify about the chain of events that unfolded.</p>
<p>However, as much as it may gall individuals like you, there aren&#8217;t any secrets worth keeping in this nation called Kenya that wananchi do not or will not know all about right about the time they&#8217;re classified as secret (yes, it is that bad!).</p>
<p>Added to which elimination of an individual in a leadership position by way of assasination is a two way street as many nations have learnt to their cost&#8230;.any one can be gotten to, so I wouldn&#8217;t be in any rush to consider your idea a solution to all the individuals considered to be a &#8216;problem&#8217;.</p>
<p>Your idea of the &#8216;problem&#8217; individual is yours. I have mine, others have theirs&#8230;..pursuing this argument to it&#8217;s proper conclusion, where does that leave us? </p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
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